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  about PA66/GF30% extrusion fluctuation

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Author Topic:   about PA66/GF30% extrusion fluctuation
chenzhiqiang
Senior Member

Posts: 10
From:Nanjing, Jiangsu, China
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 10, 2003 11:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for chenzhiqiang   Click Here to Email chenzhiqiang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
hi, everyone;

We have 6 single screw extruders to process PA66 and PA6/GF30%. Now I have a problem:
extruder works normally at first 15-20minutes but no or just a little material comes from die later. After stopping the extruder for one monment I can start the extruder normally again. But later problem happens again. Could you help me?
Temp: 280,270,265
screw dia. 30mm
L/D:25
screw design: 18L/D+3L/D+4L/D, compressing ratio 5/1.5;

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Steve H
Moderator

Posts: 230
From:New Zealand
Registered: Jun 2001

posted August 11, 2003 01:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Steve H   Click Here to Email Steve H     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
G'day Chenzhiqiang

Welcome to the single screw extrusion forum.

You've given us quite a bit of info, well done Have you got the depths of your feed zone, compression and metering sections of your screw.

Are you cooling the feedthroat of your barrel.

With your barrel temps, are you running the feed zone at 280C or 265C. Whats happening with the melt temp, melt pressure and screw motor amps.

Steve H

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chenzhiqiang
Senior Member

Posts: 10
From:Nanjing, Jiangsu, China
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 11, 2003 04:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for chenzhiqiang   Click Here to Email chenzhiqiang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks. The feeding zone is cooled with recycled water. The feeding zone has a depth of 5mm and metering zone has a depth of 1.5mm. We have runned the extruder for nearly all kinds of temp. setting. All the same results happen.

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Tom C
Moderator

Posts: 178
From:Wharton, NJ, USA
Registered: Jun 2001

posted August 11, 2003 06:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tom C   Click Here to Email Tom C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You probably have severe wear in the short transition zone. Likely when you start up the barrel is cooled by the introduction of material. This cool barrel helps to fill the wear gap with viscous material and allow pumping. When the barrel zone finally heats up you lose pumping ability in the transition zone due to the low viscosity of nylon melts.

The company that owns this forum can supply new screws and barrels. I would recommend a significant screw redesign constructed from wear resisant materials.

Tom C

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zabielski
Senior Member

Posts: 214
From:McHenry, IL USA
Registered: Nov 2002

posted August 11, 2003 07:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for zabielski   Click Here to Email zabielski     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tom C: Will you be recommending CPMV-9 for the screw and CPMV-10 for the barrel? Just wondering, as I had done that for an old IM unit years ago, and to my knowledge, these finish's have terrific abrashion resistance.

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zabielski
Senior Member

Posts: 214
From:McHenry, IL USA
Registered: Nov 2002

posted August 11, 2003 07:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for zabielski   Click Here to Email zabielski     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tom C: Will you be recommending CPMV-9 for the screw and CPMV-10 for the barrel? Just wondring, as these finished alloys have terrific wear resistance.

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zabielski
Senior Member

Posts: 214
From:McHenry, IL USA
Registered: Nov 2002

posted August 11, 2003 07:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for zabielski   Click Here to Email zabielski     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tom C: Will you be recommending CPMV-9 for the screw and CPMV-10 for the barrel? Just wondering, as these have good abrasion resistance characteristics.

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louis33
Senior Member

Posts: 69
From:Allentown, PA - USA
Registered: Jun 2001

posted August 11, 2003 10:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for louis33   Click Here to Email louis33     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Zeb

Trying to get your post count up?

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Steve H
Moderator

Posts: 230
From:New Zealand
Registered: Jun 2001

posted August 11, 2003 03:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Steve H   Click Here to Email Steve H     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ken, say after me:
I must push the "post reply" button once
I must push the "post reply" button once

Steve H

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Steve H
Moderator

Posts: 230
From:New Zealand
Registered: Jun 2001

posted August 12, 2003 12:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Steve H   Click Here to Email Steve H     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tom C

Could this be a case of the feed bridging in the hopper/ feed throat?

Steve H

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zabielski
Senior Member

Posts: 214
From:McHenry, IL USA
Registered: Nov 2002

posted August 12, 2003 06:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for zabielski   Click Here to Email zabielski     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Steve H & Tom C.: Wow, that was worse than stuttering in public! I sure don't know how I done that multiple post thing. My apologies.

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chenzhiqiang
Senior Member

Posts: 10
From:Nanjing, Jiangsu, China
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 12, 2003 10:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for chenzhiqiang   Click Here to Email chenzhiqiang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No any bridging phinomina. We can see PA pellets rounding in screw channels without any conveying.
Thanks again.

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Tom C
Moderator

Posts: 178
From:Wharton, NJ, USA
Registered: Jun 2001

posted August 15, 2003 11:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tom C   Click Here to Email Tom C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ken,

I've had good experiences with CPM-10V on small parts. I think you can only get so big.

On larger screws Stellite and Colmonoy welded overlay grades work good. Be sure to check barrel compatibility charts.

I like Wexco 777 barrel liners. Conforma-clad is also good for smaller barrels like twin screws. Some have had good results with barrels made with the HIP process.

Tom C

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chenzhiqiang
Senior Member

Posts: 10
From:Nanjing, Jiangsu, China
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 16, 2003 06:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for chenzhiqiang   Click Here to Email chenzhiqiang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Great thanks again. The extruders I used are all new machines without any abrasion phinomina. But you will be appreciated if you can tell me the appropriate clearance between screw and barrel. Maybe the parameters are not proper.

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Tom C
Moderator

Posts: 178
From:Wharton, NJ, USA
Registered: Jun 2001

posted August 16, 2003 12:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tom C   Click Here to Email Tom C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The screw design you have is based on disproven concepts for nylon screw design. Also these quick transition screws were designed for unfilled grades.

If you are not using very wear resistant materials on the screw and barrel, a screw design like you have could wear out in a single day running glass filled nylon.

If wear is not the problem, then a likely source is screw and barrel temperature. Once you start the extruder it can take 15-20 minutes for temperatures to stabilize.

While not running the screw can heat up in the feed zone. This may provide a temperature where the friction is low on the screw. As the extruder runs, the constant feed of new resin draws heat from the screw. It is possible that a lower screw temperature has higer friction with the resin, and this stops feeding.

Another possibility is related to the above. When you start running the screw is hot. Because of the long feed section of the screw melting begins well before the transition. As the process runs for a while the screws cools as described above, and/or the beginning of melting moves further towards the throat as barrel heaters recover. Some of the melted material then freezes onto the screw causing a buildup. When the extruder is stopped, the buildup could possible be re-melted, or scrubbed off by the stop/start process. Then you can run again until the buildup occurs, again.

Solutions:

1) A correct screw design would be best.
2) Heat the screw.
3) Lower all of the heaters to about 100C up to 6D before the transition. Then set that heater to 300C, then set as usual. This will prevent pre-mature melting.

From this screw you should expect; low rate, excessive wear, and surging as a normal condition.

Tom C


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TomBlack
Moderator

Posts: 34
From:
Registered: Jul 2002

posted August 18, 2003 09:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TomBlack   Click Here to Email TomBlack     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Everyone,

Been busy and sorry to not to have got to this post sooner. Has anyone discussed the idea of nylon slipping in the feed? If so, please ignore the post, however if not, I'ld be happy to offer some comments. I've had lot's of issues with Nylon mis-feeding due to slippage on the barrel and have used small barrel grooves quite successfully to overcome this...


tom black

------------------
Thomas Black
PPS, Inc.

www.ppsincorp.com

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