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Author | Topic: To the experts |
cadcamjim Member Posts: 4 |
posted February 06, 2004 12:42 PM
This will probably sound more like a rant than questions but here goes. I have been employeed at a custom profile extrusion company for 6 years now as designer,r&d,cnc programmer,etc. etc. Our main products are rigid pvc. The more we grow the bigger the problems get. Our product development team has developed dies to run certain materials/ blends only to have schedulers, and production managers change the suppliers of material without any notice. Can you imagine the outcome from the die ?? Quality control seems a thing of the past .Main concerns now seem geared around material cost only and not about if it can make good parts.I have seen material suppliers come and go and what is proven to work from one supplier cannot be matched by another. Imagine our setup tech's anger to see a difficult to run die now scheduled with a pvc from a different supplier that has not been tested yet on that die. :-( I sympathize with them greatly but cannot go back and tune 800 tools to suit the flavour of the month.The same happens with color etc. My method is if it ain't broke, don't mess with it. If you want to cut costs,look at maximizing effeciency in all other areas of operations. Not just how much we spend on material and forget the rest. I wonder how they do the math at the end of the month when many jobs have to be rerun. Cause determined from improper mix. Can anyone say engineering controls ?? Seems taboo here. I could go on and on but thank goodness it is friday. This is a great site I believe and I would love to see more info shared.Especially in the so called "BLACK ART" area. Oh man my brain is gonna melt before this week is over. Cheers all, hope to read some similiar horror stories on Monday. IP: Logged |
Bob Cunningham Senior Member Posts: 75 |
posted February 06, 2004 03:50 PM
Unfortunately, this is typical. Remember that over the life of a machine, material is probably 70% of the cost- machinery and labor are relatively cheap (which, by the way, is a great reason to spend a little bit more and get the best machinery). If you attend Plastics Engineering school, you'll hear more about the importance of cost (of material) than in any other discipline of engineering (mechanical, electrical, etc.). -Bob Cunningham IP: Logged |
Tom C Moderator Posts: 294 |
posted February 06, 2004 06:28 PM
I hate the use of the word "Team" in business. Not becasue it is a bad concept, but because so many business management atrocities are committed under the banner of "Team". When manager has told me in the past that they want me be to be a team player the translation is "Shut up and do what I say!" Every department in a business has something important to contribute to the satisfaction of customers and generation of profit. If a department is ignored, problems will results. If all departments have the ability to contribute to the above goals, as in a team effort,there is a better likleyhood of success. So in the above case there could be a hypothetical team meeting discussing how to make the product. The engineering dept. will say "we need the same raw material all the time in order to make the product". The product manager will say "we need raw material flexibility in order to be price competitive". The team should realize that the prodcut manager has trumpted the engineering department becasue if the product is not competitive, there is no business and therefore no jobs. The ball is now back in the engineering department to figure out how to design the process to handle variations in the raw materials. The smart engineering manager will negotiate a range of properties that the raw material will meet so there is some degree of control. In a perfect world the engineering department can then budget the capital cost requirements to tool up for the product, and production should be able to readily handle the variations in raw materials that ar supplied. Well, anyone who has worked in plastics knows this process rarely happens. Even if it does happen, it is very difficult for the engineering dept, to design dies and such to handle a wide range of raw materials. Rather than fight for right, the engineers give up and "work hard" to chase the uncontrolled changes. The engineers end up frustrated as described in the initial post, but all agree that the engineers are working hard to keep up. I am an engineer, so I feel justified in criticizing engineers for the poor job that they do in this situation. Many engineers are so passive they will not fight for what they know is right, and just work hard to keep up with the changes and justify their jobs. Many engineers are so passive that they will not investigate or propose new technologies that could dramatically improve these situations and their employers profitability. Instead they just work hard to keep up with the changes and justify their jobs. This practice of working hard to keep up with the changes and justify their jobs is just plain dishonest. So many engineers participate in this practice it is a crime. Most managers have no idea that this practice is going on. These managers are the ones that created the situation in the first place because of their dictatorial style. These managers are incompetent. It is sad how many companies pay good money to employ people under these conditions. If the owners of the company seem satisfied with the current situation, I would suggest moving on. Through my ranting you may have guessed I been involed from all ends of these situations in the past. My prefered way of making a living now is to try and provide companies with technologies that will help in the conditons as described in the original post. If anyone is interested in more details about those technologies, please email me. Tom C
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zabielski Senior Member Posts: 276 |
posted February 08, 2004 11:47 AM
Cost controls VS reality never works well. To compliment cost control's, an Internal as well as an External "Customer Correction Notice" (ICCN & ECCN) system should be put in place. Only when this is done, will change occur. In general, I would think that the purchasing department be replaced by people who are savvy to the written definition of requirements that should be written for each material, as well as writing a comprehensive Raw Material Speciifcation. When loss's are incurred, the "TEAM" players are then quickly identified as the ROOT CAUSE. Well, then it's time for the "pink slips" to be passed out. IP: Logged |
cadcamjim Member Posts: 4 |
posted February 09, 2004 07:49 AM
Cheers to you all :-) I knew a rant would make me feel a little better. Your replies are appreciated. MAny of the things that happen here are ALL controlable. Unfortunately it is going to take a few BIG BONKS on some heads to see it. I have been pointing it out for a long time and although the squeeky wheel gets the greese, he can also be labelled contraversial.It's too bad that some people do not know how to use constructive critisisms to their advantage. I have tried and tried to help all making these types of decisions and to no avail.Theya ll know better what they are doing or just don not care .Well when it hits the fan and customers walk,managers will be in the welfare line and I will be at the next shop still employed. The point about material costs are something we cannot just change at the flip of a coin as we still have over 800 tools tuned to run already. WE surely cannot go back and tune them for the flavour of the month again. All I am goign to say at our next general meeting is let the public hangings begin .LONG OVERDUE. Will keep you posted when the smoke clears. thanks guys. IP: Logged |
cadcamjim Member Posts: 4 |
posted February 09, 2004 10:16 AM
"The smart engineering manager will negotiate a range of properties that the raw material will meet so there is some degree of control" I have repeatedly asked for Raw Material Speciifcations from suppliers to be told the salesman said it is virtually the same as what we get from a different supplier. Not the case when you try to run it. "Every department in a business has something important to contribute to the satisfaction of customers and generation of profit." I agree 100% on this and when your customers have material specs in place and someone here opts to try something different and then ship it without notice ?? Someone needs a labotomy in my opinion. Those end results will only keep a customer coming back so often. Once bitten, twice shy. I love taking a walk thru the warehouse only to see so many gaylords with OFF SPEC labels on them. Then no engineering controls on where it is to be used. "Many engineers are so passive they will not fight for what they know is right, and just work hard to keep up with the changes and justify their jobs. IP: Logged |
louis33 Senior Member Posts: 77 |
posted February 09, 2004 10:55 AM
Perhaps you can use an old computer analogy GIGO Garbage in Garbage out. When will they learn . . . IP: Logged |
Stephen J. Derezinski Member Posts: 4 |
posted February 22, 2004 09:24 PM
CadCamJim-- So often it all comes down to the accounting system. It is the guiding force that can make managers concentrate on seemingly stupid approaches rather than science or logic. Steve Derezinski Extruder Tech, Inc. IP: Logged |
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