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Author Topic:   PVC extruder fumes
terry.m
Member

Posts: 1
From:Canada
Registered: May 2003

posted May 09, 2003 04:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for terry.m   Click Here to Email terry.m     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am interested in getting detailed information regarding the (chemical)
nature of the fumes exhaused as a part of a barrel feed pvc extruder. this
is a matter of some urgency

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zabielski
Senior Member

Posts: 166
From:McHenry, IL USA
Registered: Nov 2002

posted May 10, 2003 08:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for zabielski   Click Here to Email zabielski     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'd say they are predominantly hydrochloric acid, and low molecular weight compounds from the additive package(s) used. I've seen stainless steel "rust" in a new Plant within the first quarter of operation. Because the fumes go up the exhust hood, they tend to eventually condense, then drip back down. I've seen an ingenious design of a fume hood that had an internal lip inside the hood, which cought the condensates, then allowed them to drain off to one side. On that tilted side, a screw tread allowed the attchment of a plastic bottle that cought the condensate.

No one was to know what it was, so as they filled up, they were then drained into a 55 gallon drum (which promptly started to leak).

This is a serios problem in most PVC shops, and you need to design a method to neutralize the acid as it enters the fume hood's.

This is very serious business. I've seen some operators with burnt nostriles too.

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2beeps
Moderator

Posts: 51
From:Silver City, NM, USA
Registered: Jun 2001

posted May 11, 2003 12:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 2beeps   Click Here to Email 2beeps     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Extruding well stabilized/lubricated compounds within the "processing window" on a well maintained extrusion line should only emit plasticizer/stabilizer odors in flexibles, and stabilizer(mercaptide)odors with some lubricant fumesin rigids.
If you are smelling pungent HCl fumes, the
material is DEGRADING somewhere in the system
and corrective measures need to be taken!!

You need to know and control the exit melt temp.,and insure there are no hang-up points in the barrel,head, and die. With early HCl
elimination--i.e.1-3 double bonds on PVC,a black light can detect early degradation on the profile.Visible discoloration starts at 3-5 double bonds.

In any event, I agree with Ken that a good venting system is essential not only at each machine, but throughout the plant!

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M.Blader
Senior Member

Posts: 11
From:noplace
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 17, 2003 07:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for M.Blader   Click Here to Email M.Blader     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Crank up the exaust and hope for the best.

There are no known studies on long term effects from sucking in PVC fumes.

In heavy doses (HEAVY,....like swimming in fumes...) It errodes the bones in the fingure tips and toes.
Much worse happens after that.
(PBS.org, 2001)

This was happening in the 60's when Chloride
was first being processed, but in it's rawest form.
The US Gov., of course, tried to cover it up.
It became a worldwide coverup between chloride processing companies.

PVC (type 1) also contains the same chemicals
that were found in the most favorite weapons
of WW2.

Some well known companies are doing away with PVC all together, and don't even attempt
to mention the word to PETA or Greenpeace.

Either way, I have seen companies get nervous over things like PVC buildup on hoods
and dies, (IE dripping into bottles....)
and it is then handled like cynide.
They see million dollar lawsuits in 30 years...

My advice is to keep your hoods/exaust in tip-top shape, and where a resp.whenever possible.

You can find info on PVC chemicals here: http://www.psrc.usm.edu/macrog/pc.htm

PS: The liver is the first thing to be effected by PVC, keep that in check as well.


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2beeps
Moderator

Posts: 51
From:Silver City, NM, USA
Registered: Jun 2001

posted June 18, 2003 12:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 2beeps   Click Here to Email 2beeps     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
M Blader---

Your post is the most blatant "claptrap" that
I've seen in a long time!!
With over 12 BILLION lbs of PVC processed in the U.S.ALONE each year, NO ONE is "corking off" due to "EXCESS HCl fumes"!! A well maintained PVC production facility uses efficient venting to take care of the MINIMAL
HCl that MAY be generated during production runs---if more serious problems are occuring
on a continuous basis, that company will not
last very long competively!
I've looked at your recommended web site, and find it to be replete with negative innuendos
and an "anti-plastics agenda" that does not correlate with the real world!!

Have a good day!!
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