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  sillver streak, splay

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Author Topic:   sillver streak, splay
John Temple
Member

Posts: 2
From:Ireland
Registered: Jan 2005

posted January 23, 2005 06:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for John Temple     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi, I would appreciate any advice on the following.
I have an issue on an 1800 ton moulding machine (krauss mafeii) with silver streak / splay marks. The products are rear covers of television cabinets and the material is Noryl. The fault is occuring on about 90% of parts produced and it appears randomly but quite large in size. The shot weight is 3.5kg, roughly 65% of the available shot weight.It occurs across all moulds that are put in the machine. All moulds are hot runners with hydraulic valve gates. It does not occur when these moulds are put into other machines. (The material is being pre-dryed at 80c for three hours in a new dessicant dryer.)

The machine was purchased 2nd hand and on purchase the screw and barrel was upsized from 115mm to 130mm. There had to be some compensation made because the barrel remained the same length but the screw designer assures me that the screw is generating enough shear. Just some hand written notes I have from a conversation with the screw designer last night (he is in USA and I am in Ireland)show there is a volume compression of 2.5 and a linear compression of 2.7 and a 4.2 /1 compression ratio. Again I was just noting as he spoke so (and I am not an expert on screw design) so forgive me if these make no sense. But I can firm up this data when the working week begins.

The only improvement I could make was by fitting a mixing nozzle (to generate more shear) and by increasing the barrel heats. But this just reduces the reject level it does not eliminate it. Barrel heats now are around the 300 degree centigrade mark (I started at about 265c). The screw speed is about 80rpm.

One other area I looked at was decompression. At the end of the screw recovery the residual pressure can drive the screw back about 6 to 8 mm. I have reduced this by introducing a slight sprue break (carriage back) at the end of screw recovery but it is not 100% constant and by tapering off the back pressure near the end of recovery.

Occaisonally the first hour of production is fine but then the problem re-appears, (the dryer is holding over 3 hours of material, based on current throughput).

I realise that more specific info on the screw design is required to properly diagnose if this is the issue (and I can provide this when I have it to hand), but my fear is that because of the screw change I am focussing too much on this and the problem may lie else where. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

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Tom C
Moderator

Posts: 630
From:Brodheadsville, PA USA
Registered: Jun 2001

posted January 23, 2005 08:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tom C   Click Here to Email Tom C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
John,

When I hear of streaks and splay moisture problems automatically come to mind. I would first make sure the dryer's performance is up to speed. You could test this by taking the dryer output from a machine that you know works, and feed the current dryer with that material. If the problem goes away and stays away, you know the problem source is the current dryer.

If that does not work then I would look at the potential of overworking Noryl. I have experienced where some grades of Noryl will degrade and produce gas when overstressed. We can discuss that further if the dryer proves not to be the source.

Tom Cunningham
www.ExtrusionTechnicalServices.com


[This message has been edited by Tom C (edited January 23, 2005).]

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John Temple
Member

Posts: 2
From:Ireland
Registered: Jan 2005

posted January 23, 2005 11:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for John Temple     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Tom, thanks for the quick reply.
We had done what you suggested with the dryer (we have tried three different dryers that we know work on other machines). GE also suggested we were over-working the material and it is of course a possibility - one of the things I wnat to do early next week is take the exact current melt temp of the material - that should give some indication of how much energy we are putting into the material.The purging itself looks good - i.e no visible volitiles or unplasticised granules. The only reason I went for purposely increasing the shear was because it seemed to make a small difference. But I agree, it appears to run counter to logic. The screw designer suggested we try a reverse barrel temp profile, i.e. hotter near the throat and working downwards - again he was thinking make the heaters do more work and the screw less. We have yet to try this (I am currently in the Czech Republic working on another moulding issue, but I have guys in Dublin waiting to try anything on Monday morning)

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Tom C
Moderator

Posts: 630
From:Brodheadsville, PA USA
Registered: Jun 2001

posted January 23, 2005 12:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tom C   Click Here to Email Tom C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
John,


Sometimes the issue is the injector nozzel and the injection speed. A small nozzel and high injection speed can work the material to degradation.

If you work the material before the nozzel harder (with the likelyhood that you will raise the temperature of the melt) you will lower the viscosity of the material entering the nozzel. Lower viscosity at the same shear rate will result in lower stress and potentially less degradation. As you can see there may be some optimum point for the least degradation, but in my opinion you are making the wrong play.

I would compare the following from each machine used; nozzel lengths and diameters, melt temperature, and injection rate (cc/sec). Get the melt temperatures using air shots at a very slow injection rate. This will give a better indication of the melt temperature being generated by the screw as opposed to any nozzel heating. Then you could also test at full injection rate to see any heating effects.

It would be possible to run simulations of the screw and the nozzel performance. Simulations help to see inside the process and detect problems and patterns. Let me know if you are interested.

Tom C
www.ExtrusionTechnicalServices.com

[This message has been edited by Tom C (edited January 23, 2005).]

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woody
Member

Posts: 2
From:Science Hill
Registered: Nov 2005

posted November 14, 2005 07:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for woody   Click Here to Email woody     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
One thing you can check I am just throwing this out there is make sure you nozzle and nozzle tip are tight, you could be picking up some old material from there. Just maybe something you overlooked..

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